Independence Day Regatta

  • Hosted By: Schuylkill Navy of Philadelphia
  • 2016 Registered Regatta

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Event# Time* Code Event Competitors
Entries
Friday, July 3, 2009
1 Womens Junior 16 4x
5
2 Womens Masters 4+
19
3 Mens Masters 8
12
    Capital Rowing Club (A)
2.4 (38)
    Community Rowing, Inc. (A)
P. Beaman/G. Piantedosi/E. Salley/M. Van Der Heide/C. Seglem/J. Coyne/M. Hyde/M. Jafri/M. Bell (Cox)
8.8 (48)
    D.C. Strokes Rowing Club (A)
K. Kriese/S. Shakir/W. Randolph/K. Roden/R. Edwards/R. Johnson/F. Walker/D. Early/E. Underhill (Cox)
0.7 (33)
    Fairmount Rowing Association (A)
S. Jonik/R. Sargent/J. SONZOGNI/K. Flynn/C. Kaufmann/G. Stefan, Sr./B. Galli/J. Willemin/R. Calvert (Cox)
21.8 (60)
    Palm Beach Rowing Association, Inc. (A)
S. Norman/D. Johnson/F. Honebein/C. Redhead/W. Updegrave/a. balogh/J. Green/B. Dunlap/J. Chatzky (Cox)
10.6 (50)
    Potomac Boat Club (A)
R. Price/N. Davies/J. Forrest/N. Holland/R. Shaffer/E. Bocian/T. Nix/T. Baxter/M. Nguyen (Cox)
2.9 (39)
    University Barge Club (A)
A. Sauter/D. McGuinn/G. Cobb/R. Bonner/B. McClelland/D. Shay/M. Morano/M. Murphy/J. Curtin (Cox)
0.5 (32)
    Whitemarsh Boat Club (A)
E. Fox/S. Whalen/T. Kaney/S. Kolbe/J. Voss/B. Smith/B. Scher/A. Plache/J. Mieczkowski (Cox)
0.0 (54)
    Wilmington Rowing Center (WRC) (A)
B. Reinhard/D. Green/J. Williams/B. Venti/M. Iacone/S. Rosenberg/F. Mraz/M. Holcomb/A. Evans (Cox)
5.8 (44)
    D.C. Strokes Rowing Club (B)
R. Hansen/B. Walsh/T. Fox/B. Smythers/J. Spencer/S. Fondriest/J. Beagle/J. Bartosik/M. Stratmoen (Cox)
2.0 (37)
    Fairmount Rowing Association (B)
J. Fitzpatrick/T. Greenwood/K. Gross/J. Hankee/D. MacCormick/T. McGovern/B. Perkins/G. Stefan, Jr/M. Bersani (Cox)
2.9 (39)
    University Barge Club (B)
P. Horvat/B. Isdaner/B. Mastalski/M. Budman/H. Bodek/M. Corboy/C. Seybolt/W. Van der Linde/A. Kelly (Cox)
18.0 (57)
4 Father/son 2x (1000m)
10
5 Father/daughter 2x (1000m)
5
6 Mother/son 2x (1000m)
3
7 Mother/daughter 2x (1000m)
4
8 Womens Novice 1x (1000m)
6
9 Mens Novice 1x (1000m)
9
10 Womens Junior 4x
12
    Crescent Boat Club (A)
J. Lees/J. Lees/A. Harris/J. Roloff
 
    Fairmount Rowing Association (A)
 
    Greenwich Crew (A)
 
    Haddon Township High School (A)
V. King/E. Gartland/M. Mahoney/A. Basso
 
    Mobjack Rowing Association (A)
R. O'Carroll/K. Farr/K. Hickman/T. Markot
 
    New York Rowing Association (A)
M. Armstrong/B. Hilliard/M. Pagan/Y. Carreras
 
    Pelham Community Rowing Association (A)
A. Da'Loia-Moore/U. Leone/M. Verni/C. Morel
 
    Sagamore Rowing Association (A)
 
    Saugatuck Rowing Club, LLC (A)
 
    Tempe Junior Crew, Inc. (A)
 
    University Barge Club (A)
J. Arcidiacono/T. Apostolico/K. Fitzkee/L. Sfedu
 
    Pelham Community Rowing Association (B)
K. Orlando/K. Risbergs/D. DiMaritno/N. Cooperman
 
11 Mens Senior 2x
6
12 Mens Junior 16 1x
27
13 Mens Junior 2x
40
14 Womens Junior 1x
18
    Baltimore Rowing Club
 
    East End Rowing Institute, LTD.
D. Wolkiewicz
 
    East End Rowing Institute, LTD.
C. Hanlon
 
    East End Rowing Institute, LTD.
C. Hale
 
    Essex Rowing Club, Inc.
S. Fowle
 
    Fairmount Rowing Association
 
    Greenwich Crew
P. Lees
 
    Nereid Boat Club, Inc.
G. Read
 
    Our Lady of Mercy Academy (OLMA)
R. Henriquez
 
    Riverside Boat Club
B. Husebye
 
    RowPittsburgh
 
    South Jersey Rowing Club
J. Andrews
 
    South Jersey Rowing Club
A. Koontz
 
    Swan Creek Rowing Club
T. Gordon
 
    Tempe Junior Crew, Inc.
 
    Tempe Junior Crew, Inc.
 
    Tempe Junior Crew, Inc.
 
    University Barge Club
G. Cutler
 
15 Womens Junior 16 1x
9
16 Womens Junior 4+
12
17 Mens Junior 4x
18
18 Mens Junior 16 4+
6
19 Mens 2-
9
20 Mens Light 2x
2
21 Womens Light 2x
5
22 Womens Inter. Light 1x
10
23 Mens Junior 16 4x
9
24 Womens Junior 16 4+
5
25 Mens Intermediate 4+
21
26 Womens Junior 16 2x
11
27 Mens Intermediate 2x
18
    Baltimore Rowing Club
 
    Baltimore Rowing Club
J. Ditter/M. Spalluzzi
 
    Capital Rowing Club
J. Carrasco/N. Underwood
 
    Crescent Boat Club
X. Alexander/J. O'Neill
 
    Crescent Boat Club
T. Farrell/J. Baeringer
 
    Crescent Boat Club
T. Hersh/J. Lee
 
    Crescent Boat Club
R. Chiu/C. Sullivan
 
    Crescent Boat Club
D. Bratton/J. Pagano
 
    Crescent Boat Club
B. Long/E. Herrera
 
    New York Athletic Club
 
    Potomac Boat Club
P. Mastroyannis/N. Al-Naji
 
    Potomac Boat Club
S. Peabody/J. Moncton
 
    South Jersey Rowing Club
T. Zaleski/M. Schmitt
 
    St. Catharines Rowing Club
 
    Unaffiliated (USA)
J. Voter/M. Scheuritzel
 
    Unaffiliated (USA)
E. Shoemaker/B. Ruh
 
    Undine Barge Club of Philadelphia
J. Barker/D. Ansel
 
    University Barge Club
P. Seymour/P. Miller
 
28 Mens Junior 4+
17
29 Womens Masters 8
14
30 Mens Masters 4+
21
31 Mixed Masters 2x
10
32 Masters Mixed 4x
5
    Cooper Rowing Club (A)
J. Green/E. Normoyle/D. Anders/J. Stack
1.6 (36)
    Penn A.C. Rowing Association (A)
A. Myarick/T. Hogan/J. Hogan/D. Kurland
11.5 (51)
    University Barge Club (A)
A. Cook/B. Miller/C. Carlson/A. Lawrence
8.8 (48)
    Vesper Boat Club (A)
P. Simone/A. Jonik/M. Jonik/R. Wilson
14.6 (54)
    Cooper Rowing Club (B)
R. Murray/M. Krouch/J. Close/K. Foran
10.6 (50)
33 Mens 4+
4
34 Womens Open 4+
5
35 Womens Intermediate 2x
14
36 Mens Inter. Light 8
4
37 Mens Junior 1x
27
38 Mens Inter. Light 4x
3
39 Womens Junior 2x
30
40 Mens Junior 16 2x
11
41 Mens Intermediate 2-
15
42 Mens Junior 8
17
43 Womens Junior 8
9
44 Womens 1x
16
45 Mens 1x
11
46 Womens Light 1x Dash
5
47 Mens Light 1x Dash
3
48 Womens 1x Dash
6
    GMS Rowing Center
A. Blake
 
    Penn A.C. Rowing Association
A. Holmes
 
    Undine Barge Club of Philadelphia
M. Sarbanis
 
    Undine Barge Club of Philadelphia
H. Johnson
 
    Undine Barge Club of Philadelphia
C. Reddick
 
    University Barge Club
G. Cutler
 
49 Mens 1x Dash
11
50 Disabled 2x
3
51 Mens Intermediate 1x
15
    Crescent Boat Club
J. Gardner-Rosen
 
    Occoquan Boat Club
K. Gibel
 
    Penn A.C. Rowing Association
P. Hein
 
    Penn A.C. Rowing Association
S. Crim
 
    Penn A.C. Rowing Association
J. Quie
 
    Penn A.C. Rowing Association
R. Journlin
 
    Penn A.C. Rowing Association
D. Ringham
 
    Riverside Boat Club
D. Dahl
 
    Rochester Institute of Technology
M. Menzenski
 
    Unaffiliated (USA)
M. Moreau
 
    Unaffiliated (USA)
S. Leonard
 
    Unaffiliated (USA)
C. Dobrowolski
 
    Undine Barge Club of Philadelphia
A. Jones
 
    University Barge Club
P. Seymour
 
    Vesper Boat Club
H. McKeegan
 
52 Womens Intermediate 1x
12
53 Mens Inter. Light 1x
10
54 Womens Inter. 4+
12
55 Womens Light 4+
0
56 Womens 2x
6
57 Womens Intermediate 2-
8
58 Mens 2x
4
59 Mens Masters 1x
35
    Atlanta Rowing Club, Inc.
C. Browder
4.2 (40)
    Bachelors Barge Club
M. Levy
36.1 (65)
    Bachelors Barge Club
D. Greenspan
18.2 (54)
    Bachelors Barge Club
R. Miller
15.6 (52)
    Baltimore Rowing Club
J. Anderson
16.9 (53)
    Carnegie Lake Rowing Association
A. Vafaee
18.2 (54)
    Cincinnati Rowing Club
T. Dryer
27.2 (60)
    Cincinnati Rowing Club
B. Miller
28.9 (61)
    Fairmount Rowing Association
J. Pokorny
30.6 (62)
    Greenwich Crew
M. Tebay
32.4 (63)
    Greenwich Rowing Club
T. Wike
6.4 (43)
    Hilton College
E. Steenkamp
4.9 (41)
    Hudson River Rowing Association, Inc.
M. McGrath
14.4 (51)
    Malta Boat Club
J. Cutler
5.6 (42)
    Nereid Boat Club, Inc.
B. Canha
15.6 (52)
    Nereid Boat Club, Inc.
D. Dowd
15.6 (52)
    New York Athletic Club
K. Shalabi
6.4 (43)
    Palm Beach Rowing Association, Inc.
S. Norman
9.0 (46)
    Pelham Community Rowing Association
0.0 (41)
    Penn A.C. Rowing Association
P. Hein
6.4 (43)
    Potomac Boat Club
C. Sutliff
50.6 (72)
    Potomac Boat Club
N. Holland
12.1 (49)
    Potomac Boat Club
T. Nix
3.6 (39)
    Potomac Boat Club
N. Young
30.6 (62)
    Rockford Crew
R. Anderson
25.6 (59)
    Saugatuck Rowing Club, LLC
R. Popescu
22.5 (57)
    Unaffiliated (USA)
S. Leonard
3.0 (38)
    Unaffiliated (USA)
J. Gerretsen
18.2 (54)
    Unaffiliated (USA)
G. Oxnam
4.2 (40)
    University Barge Club
R. Herman
10.0 (47)
    University Barge Club
A. Cook
18.2 (54)
    University Barge Club
W. Vanderlinde
65.0 (78)
    Whitemarsh Boat Club
G. Kerr
16.9 (53)
    Wilmington Rowing Center (WRC)
B. Reinhard
0.0 (52)
    Wilmington Rowing Center (WRC)
H. Mueller
48.4 (71)
60 Mens Masters Light 1x
6
61 Womens Masters 1x
18
    Bachelors Barge Club
S. Cohen
21.0 (56)
    Bachelors Barge Club
J. Michel
24.0 (58)
    Bachelors Barge Club
K. Tetlow
0.0 (73)
    Baltimore Rowing Club
E. Anderson
25.6 (59)
    Capital Rowing Club
M. Fryc
2.5 (37)
    Cincinnati Rowing Club
M. Alonso
16.9 (53)
    Community Rowing, Inc.
C. Truman
5.6 (42)
    Community Rowing, Inc.
C. Graves
4.2 (40)
    Fairmount Rowing Association
S. Sargent
36.1 (65)
    Fairmount Rowing Association
T. Bell
6.4 (43)
    Greenwich Crew
K. Blankley
1.6 (35)
    Hiawatha Island Boat Club
M. Karl
21.0 (56)
    Pelham Community Rowing Association
I. Ghitelman
18.2 (54)
    Pelham Community Rowing Association
M. Dikkers
14.4 (51)
    Philadelphia Girls' Rowing Club
A. Northrup
28.9 (61)
    Saugatuck Rowing Club, LLC
P. Raila
12.1 (49)
    University Barge Club
A. Lawrence
7.2 (44)
    Vesper Boat Club
M. Posner
30.6 (62)
62 Womens Masters Light 1x
9
63 Womens Inter. Light 2x
4
64 Mens Intermediate Light 4+
6
65 Womens Light 1x
5
66 Mens Light 1x
4
67 Mens Intermediate 4x
6
68 Womens Intermediate 4x
11
    Bachelors Barge Club (A)
E. Close/L. Rosen/A. Callegari/M. Cusack
 
    Bloomington USRowing Pre-Elite Camp (A)
C. Campbell/R. Ogundiran/S. Seager/M. Cullins
 
    Crescent Boat Club (A)
J. Lees/A. Fried/E. Bratton/A. Kendall
 
    Fairmount Rowing Association (A)
K. Burke/M. Berry/E. Ciccotti/B. Gribbin
 
    GMS Rowing Center (A)
M. McKellop/V. Greco/A. Kobayashi/S. Sims
 
    Mobjack Rowing Association (A)
J. Fosdyck/K. Farr/K. Hickman/T. Markot
 
    New York Athletic Club (A)
 
    St. Catharines Rowing Club (A)
L. Cowal/S. Wiley/K. Sheahan/F. Izzaguirre
 
    Undine Barge Club of Philadelphia (A)
K. McFetridge/W. Carswell/N. Wagner/K. Wood
 
    University Barge Club (A)
J. Arcidiacono/T. Apostolico/K. Fitzkee/L. Sfedu
 
    USR Junior Women's Development Camp (A)
S. Camp 1/S. Camp 2/S. Camp 3/S. Camp 4
 
69 Mens Inter. Light 2x
8
70 Womens Masters 2x
27
    Bachelors Barge Club
G. Cipollone/M. Gordon
10.5 (49)
    Capital Rowing Club
M. Fryc/P. Besteman
1.7 (36)
    Community Rowing, Inc.
Q. Q/M. Wolcott
0.0 (0)
    Community Rowing, Inc.
C. Truman/C. McCarthy
2.6 (38)
    Cooper Rowing Club
E. Normoyle/L. Finsrud
13.5 (52)
    Fairmount Rowing Association
K. Lewis/T. Bell
5.5 (43)
    GMS Rowing Center
K. LHommedieu/K. Simmons
16.9 (55)
    Greenwich Crew
J. Lawton/K. Blankley
3.7 (40)
    Greenwich Crew
C. DelSavio/B. Muenzen
7.8 (46)
    New York Rowing Association
L. Skeddle/L. Seward
2.6 (38)
    New York Rowing Association
B. Johnson/C. Feher
0.1 (29)
    Passaic River Rowing Association (PRRA)
2.2 (37)
    Passaic River Rowing Association (PRRA)
S. Rauth/G. Lahm
18.2 (56)
    Pelham Community Rowing Association
S. Woods/L. Stirton Aust
8.6 (47)
    Pelham Community Rowing Association
S. Sales/M. Durand
10.5 (49)
    Penn A.C. Rowing Association
D. Brumble/M. Case
15.7 (54)
    Potomac Boat Club
0.0 (47)
    Rockland Rowing Association, Inc.
V. Lance/J. Atwell
15.7 (54)
    RowPittsburgh
0.0 (27)
    Saugatuck Rowing Club, LLC
V. Linfielder/P. Davitt
4.2 (41)
    Saugatuck Rowing Club, LLC
P. Raila/S. Padilla
8.6 (47)
    University Barge Club
C. Carlson/A. Lawrence
6.2 (44)
    Vesper Boat Club
A. Podgorski/A. Golaszewska
2.2 (37)
    Vesper Boat Club
A. Franklin/A. Kocher
12.4 (51)
    Vesper Boat Club
L. Gruendken/R. Jerril
0.3 (31)
    Wilmington Rowing Center (WRC)
J. Clark/K. Baumgartner
1.7 (36)
    Wilmington Rowing Center (WRC)
C. Plas/M. Peters
6.2 (44)
71 Mens Masters 2x
29
    Bachelors Barge Club
M. Murphy/J. Fiore
1.1 (34)
    Bachelors Barge Club
R. Miller/A. Cook
14.6 (53)
    Cincinnati Rowing Club
B. Miller/T. Dryer
23.5 (60)
    Crescent Boat Club
K. Pellicone/R. Stack
0.1 (29)
    Fairmount Rowing Association
G. Stefan, Jr/C. Mcelroy
4.2 (41)
    Fairmount Rowing Association
R. Lippa/W. Hudome
14.6 (53)
    Fairmount Rowing Association
T. Greenwood/J. Greenwood
7.0 (45)
    Fairmount Rowing Association
D. Wolff/R. Sargent
22.1 (59)
    Greenwich Crew
P. Pugliese/S. Anderson
19.4 (57)
    Greenwich Crew
M. Tebay/H. Pohl
22.1 (59)
    Malta Boat Club
R. Stehlik/F. Duling
28.0 (63)
    Malta Boat Club
C. Patterson/P. Marcella
9.5 (48)
    Malta Boat Club
M. Brown/T. Trocky
11.4 (50)
    Nereid Boat Club, Inc.
D. Dowd/B. Canha
13.5 (52)
    New York Athletic Club
C. Windeknecht/M. Daemen
12.4 (51)
    New York Rowing Association
W. David/P. Armstrong
4.2 (41)
    Palm Beach Rowing Association, Inc.
a. balogh/S. Norman
7.8 (46)
    Passaic River Rowing Association (PRRA)
A. Fiory/J. Lahm
28.0 (63)
    Pelham Community Rowing Association
6.2 (44)
    Pelham Community Rowing Association
M. Durand/G. Lewis
22.1 (59)
    Pelham Community Rowing Association
V. Houston/G. Houlihan
13.5 (52)
    Penn A.C. Rowing Association
T. Browning/P. Connolly
7.8 (46)
    Potomac Boat Club
B. Cox/E. Ryan
25.0 (61)
    Potomac Boat Club
T. Nix/N. Holland
6.2 (44)
    Rockford Crew
R. Anderson/R. Anderson
4.9 (42)
    Unaffiliated (USA)
J. Suter/K. Suter
6.2 (44)
    Undine Barge Club of Philadelphia
J. Cantrill/D. Kacala
28.0 (63)
    University Barge Club
K. Coady/J. Reiss
29.6 (64)
    Wilmington Rowing Center (WRC)
B. Reinhard/D. Green
11.4 (50)
72 Mens 4x
1
73 Womens 4x
4
74 Mens Intermediate 8
16
75 Womens Intermediate 8
8
76 Mixed Open 2x
5
77 Mens Light 4x
1
78 Mens Masters 4x
14
    Cincinnati Rowing Club (A)
B. Miller/R. Shellman/R. Anderson/T. Dryer
21.8 (60)
    Crescent Boat Club (A)
B. Ennis/B. Shea/R. Hamilton/D. Ragan
12.5 (52)
    Fairmount Rowing Association (A)
S. Jonik/J. Sognzoni/B. Galli/R. Sargent
24.5 (62)
    Greenwich Crew (A)
M. Tebay/H. Pohl/P. Oudheusden/P. Pugliese
16.8 (56)
    Malta Boat Club (A)
M. Brown/T. Trocky/R. Stehlik/F. Duling
18.0 (57)
    Palm Beach Rowing Association, Inc. (A)
S. Norman/a. balogh/D. Johnson/B. Dunlap
10.6 (50)
    Pelham Community Rowing Association (A)
V. Houston/S. Hupphrey/M. Ward/G. Houlihan
0.0 (0)
    Undine Barge Club of Philadelphia (A)
J. Cantrill/J. Clark/R. Diecidue/D. Kacala
20.5 (59)
    University Barge Club (A)
H. Greenberg/P. Mcgrath/W. Van der Linde/F. Bobrow
33.6 (68)
    Vesper Boat Club (A)
A. Hirsch/A. Cook/B. Colgan/M. O'Connor
10.6 (50)
    Crescent Boat Club (B)
e. villanueva/K. Pellicone/R. Stack/J. Scott
1.6 (36)
    Fairmount Rowing Association (B)
K. Montenegro/T. Greenwood/J. Greenwood/L. Conner
2.4 (38)
    Vesper Boat Club (B)
F. Biller/A. Scholl/P. Horvat/S. Matanovic
2.9 (39)
    Fairmount Rowing Association (C)
J. Krajewski/T. McLaughlin/G. Stefan, Sr/T. Toland
16.8 (56)
79 Womens Masters 4x
19
    Community Rowing, Inc. (A)
C. Truman/A. Rourke/R. Turri Vise/C. McCarthy
2.4 (38)
    Cooper Rowing Club (A)
E. Normoyle/J. Close/P. Schneider/J. Mitchell
10.6 (50)
    Greenwich Crew (A)
B. Muenzen/K. Blankley/J. Lawton/C. DelSavio
5.1 (43)
    New York Rowing Association (A)
C. Feher/L. Seward/B. Marianne/L. Skeddle
2.4 (38)
    Passaic River Rowing Association (PRRA) (A)
H. Woznack/D. Cenit/G. Lahm/S. Rauth
7.2 (46)
    Pelham Community Rowing Association (A)
S. Woods/P. Kelling/M. StaargaardDikke/L. Stirton Aust
8.0 (47)
    Penn A.C. Rowing Association (A)
N. Lotz/J. Moore/M. Hartigan/C. Costello
12.5 (52)
    Philadelphia Adaptive Rowing PAR (A)
G. Cipollone/K. Lewis/C. Rabuck/M. Gordon
8.8 (48)
    Potomac Boat Club (A)
11.5 (51)
    Rockland Rowing Association, Inc. (A)
V. Lance/L. Horn/M. Bucko/J. Atwell
8.0 (47)
    RowPittsburgh (A)
3.4 (40)
    Saugatuck Rowing Club, LLC (A)
S. Padilla/P. Davitt/V. Linfielder/K. Huber
6.5 (45)
    University Barge Club (A)
C. Carlson/D. Mullen/J. Wesson/A. Lawrence
5.1 (43)
    Vesper Boat Club (A)
A. Kocher/A. Franklin/M. Hilf/S. Cohen
12.5 (52)
    Wilmington Rowing Center (WRC) (A)
C. Plas/M. Peters/M. Brokaw/K. Benarcik
4.5 (42)
    Community Rowing, Inc. (B)
P. Wayne/S. Mulderig/C. Egan/C. Graves
13.5 (53)
    Cooper Rowing Club (B)
M. Bloom/D. Anders/G. Loeber/M. Krouch
3.4 (40)
    Pelham Community Rowing Association (B)
M. Levine/M. Kelly/M. Humphrey/R. Edwards
0.0 (0)
    Wilmington Rowing Center (WRC) (B)
K. Qualls/N. Falasco/K. Becker/R. Crawford
16.8 (56)
80 Womens 8
5
81 Mens 8
5
82 Octuple Sculls
4
    Malta Boat Club
I. 1/I. 3/J. 2/I. 4/I. 5/I. 6/J. Hayburn/S. Cunningham/I. 2 (Cox)
 
    Malvern Preparatory School
A. CaptainAmerica/B. IncredibleHulk/T. Ironman/M. Thor/L. Wolverine/P. Spiderman/B. Batman/T. Punisher/A. Wonderwoman (Cox)
 
    Undine Barge Club of Philadelphia
J. Barker/D. Ansel/H. McAdam/B. O'Laughlin/M. Sciblo/P. Garberson/A. Schade/T. Roberts/J. Lamont (Cox)
 
    University Barge Club
A. Cook/C. Blackwall/R. Sachs/J. Reiss/K. Coady/B. Preine/R. Herman/J. Basinski/A. Webster (Cox)
 
83 Jr Octuple Sculls
0
*-Event times, if listed, are tentative and subject to change